Week of June 16th: Teaching All the Players

[NoWorries]

I'll try to enter this weeks, the first two I was out of town the majority of those weeks and this week I was a bit confused, of course I could have asked questions.. oh well.

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I didn't get mine finished in time for the contest, but I did finish it about an hour afterward (I'm not really into the competition aspects, so that's not too big of a deal for me - but I thought I could share it anyhow). I added it to the map version that Antistone posted earlier in the week - I didn't really have time to make an interesting puzzle, but since the main purpose of the contest was to showcase the component, I didn't think it would be too big of a deal.

I'm attaching my component (the automaton) level now, you can skip to it by typing "-jump 5".

If it turns out that people don't want to keep it, I wouldn't be offended, but I think it could be useful.

[Antistone]

Looks interesting, Chunk, and I cam imagine some clever uses for it. However, there's a few parts that could use some touching up:

• There's a necromancer in the material world.
• You can do something to make the level unwinnable (dispossess automaton on north side of bridge, revive with necro, and there's no way to die again on the same side of the bridge--maybe you were counting on people using the necro to kill themselves? That doesn't work anymore, as per discussion earlier in this thread.)
• So far, all level exits have appeared in both worlds, but this one appears only in the material. It might be a good idea to either make it consistent, or give players some clue as to why it's different.
• The dispossession trigger bugs if multiple people dispossess automatons at once--all the automatons are moved to the same point. Should be fixable if you use "Triggering Unit" instead of "Casting Unit" after the wait.
• Automatons have no "Examine" message.
• The comment that claims to describe how to use Automatons is blank.
• It looks like the triggers assume that there will always be exactly 4 automatons available for possession--this should probably be generalized.
• Attempting to attack a Smashable Gate without possessing an Automaton gives an error about targeting trees--should probably be changed to something more appropriate.
• I didn't actually test, but it looks like spirits now have the "Inhabit Form" ability in all levels--perhaps the ability should be disabled at map init, then enabled only in the levels that make use of it? (Mostly so that players don't get confused by the fact that they have this ability they can't use for anything, but also to reduce the chances of an unforeseen interaction causing a bug.)
• When dispossessing an automaton, a Delver appears and dies--is there any reason this unit can't be hidden, to make this look smoother?

Also, what's the reasoning behind making automatons invulnerable when possessed, but not when dispossessed? What happens if a dispossessed automaton gets killed?

How difficult would it be to create other possessable units that work with the same system?

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However, there's a few parts that could use some touching up

Yeah, I wasn't really attempting to make an actual level that we might use in-game - I was just sort of showcasing the idea. I was originally going to make an additional component that would have been something like a firetrap that would allow passage for automatons but would kill a delver (which is actually what was supposed to prevent the unwinnable status on the bridge), but I didn't really have time to develop a solid way to make this feature, so I left it out.

So far, all level exits have appeared in both worlds, but this one appears only in the material. It might be a good idea to either make it consistent, or give players some clue as to why it's different.

I didn't follow through on stuff because I wasn't expecting it to be an actual level we would keep - however if people feel it is a good basis for an actual level, I can try to make the puzzle parts more interesting and flesh out the details.

The dispossession trigger bugs if multiple people dispossess automatons at once--all the automatons are moved to the same point. Should be fixable if you use "Triggering Unit" instead of "Casting Unit" after the wait.

Yeah, or I could just clean up the code a bit - I was being sloppy because I was rushing to get it done (I thought I might be able to finish before the contest started when I was working on that part).

-Automatons have no "Examine" message.
-The comment that claims to describe how to use Automatons is blank.
-It looks like the triggers assume that there will always be exactly 4 automatons available for possession--this should probably be generalized.
-Attempting to attack a Smashable Gate without possessing an Automaton gives an error about targeting trees--should probably be changed to something more appropriate.

Yeah, I'll clean these up, as long as people are happy with the addition. Sort of didn't want to go through the process of dealing with details if people weren't interested in keeping it.

When dispossessing an automaton, a Delver appears and dies--is there any reason this unit can't be hidden, to make this look smoother?

I actually tried using hide unit on the delver after it is created, but I think it created some issue with the other trigger, because when I tested it my spirit then ended up being hidden too (I only tried it once before switching back). Really, though, I was being lazy to finish it on time and figured I would use the existing triggers to short-cut having to reinvent the wheel to swap back to the spirit realm. There's obviously better ways to handle it; I'll clean it up as long as we are keeping it.

Also, what's the reasoning behind making automatons invulnerable when possessed, but not when dispossessed? What happens if a dispossessed automaton gets killed?

Well, the main reason is because I used the Possession ability and it wouldn't target invulnerable units (or maybe it will and I just didn't mess with the target types). However, I guess it might be an issue about a dispossessed automaton getting killed - I can mess with it and see about creating a fake possession ability or give it some status to prevent it from being attacked.

How difficult would it be to create other possessable units that work with the same system?

My intention was to make it easy to have multiple possessable units - in fact, this was going to be my system for creating specialized player units (if you remember my suggestion from last week's discussion about possible contests). Originally I was also thinking about making statues you could possess or whatever, but the war golem has that nice sleep animation that makes it very attractive to use for this. To answer your question, it is just a possession spell with a special target type (mechanical) so it should be trivial to adapt to new unit types.

[Dragonheart91]

I may not participate, (me = suck at map making) but I am really enjoying this map. Every week I wait for the new level and immediately download and play it. So, even if you don't continue the competition, you should continue this map. I really like it. Also, I could use a guide on how to beat the various levels, because I keep getting stuck or thinking that I beat it by cheating somehow.

[SeasonsOfLove]

I, unfortunately, can't ever be on for the testing, but I really would like to get on at some point this week (tomorrow/Thursday are my best days) and just play the map. I've finally started getting some time in which I can get on War3, so I want to see how the map's progressed since the first week.

[Antistone]

Dragonheart, I've sent you PMs with the intended solutions for my levels. Anyone else that wants them, let me know (though I encourage you to try to solve the puzzles yourself, first).

I know of only one (rather obscure) way to get stuck in "Remote" (described in PM) and no way to get stuck in "The Matrix." If you find any others, please let me know.

On a related note, I've just realized that there's probably a bug in the word of shadow that allows a projected player to carry items back from the spirit world with him when the spell ends. Should be easy to fix (just force the player to drop all items before he gets returned to his original position), but I thought I should mention to anyone planning on doing editing that that's not intended functionality.

Though I don't think it either helps you or allows you to get yourself stuck in the current level that uses it...

[thelosthero]

I wish I could at least attempt to make a level, but my computer is down( ) since before the first level contest ended. Also, my summer job is keeping me busy as well so thats two problems for me. I tried though, my I had part of my level done before my computer broke but I wasn't far enough to finish it on before the first contest ended.

I think I had an idea simular to chunks where you could control "souless" beings, part of my level was going to make it where you had to make your team posses units to fight a unit that is stronger than yours and defeat it through teamwork.( I was going to make it where you would control footman and priests.)

P.S. I wish I could test the levels that have been submited...